I can haz misogynies?

So we've been chatting about misogyny, and how was it that women--so early in history--fell into this position of second class citizen. Maybe when Nanowrimo is over I'll have to google up the latest theories on this. I suspect, like most things, there is no one answer, and a lot of variety depending where you go in the world. After all, from what I remember about hunting-gathering societies, they were/are/could be pretty egalitarian. Women gathered a huge % of the calories, so their input is just as important as the men's hunting. And of course there are societies like the Iroquois where women make the decisions (outside of the white-imposed band leader structure) and traditionally you drew your clan affiliation from your mother.

I took one anthropology course in the 90s, about gender and was struck by one theory. The prof was talking about areas where resources were scarce, and therefore warfare high. Some of these societies developed very male centered societies--where sperm is sacred, and there are manly rituals and such.

And some academic theorized that women participated / helped create this culture, because it benefitted them to have men going out and fighting battles. (By "benefit" I mean = to protect their children, and the survival of the tribe.) That in this sort of harsh setting you have to find a way to convince all your young men to go out and get killed. And one way to do that is to elevate their status in the tribe.

This was a big revelation for me, at the wee age of 19. It was a paradigm shift for me--exploring the possibility of women creating a male-centered culture for their own survival.

The one other factor I know of is farming, which Matt Ridley talked about in his book on how our entire evolution has been driven by sexsesex (The Red Queen--fantastic book.) Farming and animal husbandry did away with both hunting and gathering as the basis for subsistence, and it's what allowed for the accumulation of wealth. Which also means the accumulation of power. And that might be when a lot of our inequality began.

Alright. That's all I got. Anyone else?
   

Do men hate women?

Got feminisms on the mind lately. I've been thinking: Are there very many men who hate women? I feel like I haven't met many women-haters in my life. It came up in Caitlin Moran's book too--she thinks it's usually not about hate either. What do you guys think? (I know there are women who don't like other women--met plenty of those.)

Is it possible I just haven't met many of these men because, well let's face it, if a man hated women he wouldn't hang around a feminist like myself. I don't think I'm threatening at first glance, but I don't back down from bullies. In my experience men are often better at logic-based arguing, and use this to win arguments, especially against women. They haven't really won cause you can tell the other person isn't swayed, but she shuts up because she doesn't know how to debate.

I do know how to debate. I've been that person who accidentally steamrollers over other people's opinions, and I'm happy to pull out my skills on a fellow bulldozer. I enjoy myself. But I don't think women-haters care for bull-dozer fight scenes. So maybe there's this huge % of the population out there, running around hating women!

I think what's more likely is that men are confused. The roles of men and women have been changing a lot since the 60s (just watch Mad Men -- shudder) and they're still changing. As we continue to open up the boundaries of femininity and masculinity, how that relates to transvestites, transsexuals, people with both genitalia, etc. there's no sign of a new Masculinity, a new Femininity that we can all settle into. Well, that's the point right? We want to be regarded as Humans. We should be whatever the hell we want.

I guess I need to start asking men about this. I can have theories, but I'm not a dude.
   

Geeks: Just as uncool as anyone else

Awhile back Alastair Stephens of Storywonk had a blog post about the new popularity of geekdom. He was warning against geekatude crossing the line into considering themselves the cool ones, and looking down on the non-geeks:

 Geeks aren’t just accepted for who they are, but they are the new pinnacle of the social pyramid; they are the new cool. But that isn’t what being a nerd is about; more importantly, it never was. ... Cool is exclusionary ... Nerds, geeks — and yes, wonks — are passionate about things. They aren’t embarrassed to care or obsess; they never sacrifice their enthusiasm to look cool, and they don’t expect anyone else to do so either. Being a geek should be an inherently inclusive way to live; it isn’t about delineating us and them (Keep Your Cool)

This didn't sit right with me. First, I disagree that geeks have never wanted to be cool. Most geeks aren't outsiders because they're passionate about things, and don't care who knows it; it's because they don't read social cues very well. You see that reflected in a show like Freaks and Geeks. There are three main "geeks" one of whom would like to be cool, but just don't know how. Only one of them is so secure about himself that when confronted with what it takes to be more accepted, refuses to give in (Bill! It's why we love Bill!)

I know the difference 'cause when I was in high school I was the person who could read the social cues and consciously reject them. I actually wasn't teased by the In Crowd; it was by the heavy-metal-smoking-up gang, some French kids, the middle of the road kids (who wanted to be more In), and sometimes by nerds. The nerds could only see that I dressed different than Everyone Else, and judged me for that like anyone else.

Which brings me to point #2: Nerds have their own ideas of what's cool and not cool, within their own circle. And nothing shows this more than the unbearably nasty world of role playing games. And that world is just as macho, sexist, exclusionary, and shitty as any Engineering department or cop precinct of old. (Okay not so old.) This became disgustingly clear during a series of incidents my brother pointed out to me, of culture blogger Anita Sarkeesian who decided to raise money to do a series on the portrayal of women in video games. She instantly began receiving hate comments, personal threats, hacking attacks, sexual harassment, and more. (The New York Times has a larger story on sexual harassment in gaming.)

If there are geeks who are excited by a new found cool status, it's because there have always been geeks who wanted to be cool, they just didn't know how. I don't think there's anything inherently inclusionary about geek culture. Maybe there is in "wonk" culture, if there's such a thing. But generally I would say judgmental-tude is a cross cutting feature of society.
 

Have you experienced industry-related sexism?

Oh my days, have you had this happen?

A bloggy friend wrote about how she leads running groups, and is super well researched, really up on her stuff, but when she gives running advice to clients, some of them act indifferent to her advice and then...

turn around and drool like a freak and listen to…. you guessed it A MAN.
A man who has a penis and who is also older, so must be right.
Except not.
Just because I’m a young woman, does not make me any less deserving of respect and consideration. And it’s awful because there are people who are so wonderful and that I enjoyed coaching so so much who kind of acted like that with me and then they turn around and just gush about A MAN.
Because men are superior. And what bugs me is that it’s a lot of women who are doing this but they do it unconsciously. It’s extremely offensive to me. Not because I give a shit who listens to me or not. But because I give a shit that people automatically decide to listen to a man because he is of the male sex.

As I wrote in her comments, I've definitely had this working in bookstores. People assume that male employees know more about the Business section, and female employees know more about the Kids section.

This must happen in other industries? I vaguely recall my dad and step-mother having this frustration in the past (my dad can correct the details if I'm wrong). He was an airline pilot, and my step-mother flew private planes and instructed. Of course my dad's flown and instructed on small planes too, but at the time my step-mother was instructing and therefore up to date on the private scene more than my dad.

But they'd be talking to someone, Eg. at church, and they'd direct all their piloting questions to my dad. Even though everyone knew my stepmother was a pilot. Almost all her jewellery consisted of planes. Plane earrings, plane broaches, plane necklaces... . I think men did this more than women, but I could be wrong. My impression was the women thought Stepmommy's profession cool, and admired it.

...Probably doesn't help that my stepmother is beautiful, skinny, and dresses in a very "feminine" way with long painted nails, and long red hair, and make-up and frilly dresses and very put together outfits.

My dad has another weird thing that happens--people turn to him for leadership positions. He has no interest in leading projects, doesn't express this interest, prefers to act in support roles. But he's over 6 feet, broad shouldered, clean shaven, good looking... my dad's an Alpha Male (though he doesn't act like one). So people automatically think he should lead them. lol.

 

In her bomber jacket.

She flies birds these days.

Oh they must have been discussing flying when I took this.

 

Her Lady Adventurer look.

Have you guys had similar experiences?
     

Cause if you haven't danced on a pole, you just haven't lived

Remember the nice little left-brain right-brain ballerina?

I looked up a word on a French dictionary site today and... the ballerina is now a stripper.

 

I am... le discouraged.